tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.comments2023-12-25T02:31:05.991-08:00Truth, Love, and Courage: Games as StoriesGreg Kasavinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06022059960212889807noreply@blogger.comBlogger177125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-85269507566247381162014-06-08T16:45:54.809-07:002014-06-08T16:45:54.809-07:00Thank you for sharing such an in depth look into.....Thank you for sharing such an in depth look into.....dammit.<br />I have to go to work in nineteen minutes, and your writing speaks to me so strongly that I have to post something to remind myself of how important this is. I guess I just want to let you know that your writing/thoughts/ideas have a huge impact on the functionality of my day to day brain. Thanks Greg Kasavin, and I'm sure I'll spend my entire shift at work regretting I didn't actually spend the proper amount of time it takes to respond to such a enticing read. - JeredAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09994632748547043214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-83654014677562252802013-12-30T10:48:15.670-08:002013-12-30T10:48:15.670-08:00With regard to keeping the personal private, I'...With regard to keeping the personal private, I've heard some authors claim they don't always consciously realise when life events seep into the pages of their books. Indeed it can come as a complete surprise when an interviewer points out the obvious parallels with their own life.<br /><br />Maybe we're best at keeping secrets from ourselves?Geoffreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06251331339140448955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-86737933427627647512013-10-05T16:11:43.306-07:002013-10-05T16:11:43.306-07:00Finally got around to reading this. How do you thi...Finally got around to reading this. How do you think your ability as an archeologist changes as you gain more experience working in the role you are? One thing I feel as an interface designer is that while the creative process is as much one of discovery and synthesis as you describe here, I have a growing set of known quantities from previous expeditions that both speeds up the process and possibly limits my creative box without my knowledge. I worry about this a bit.Clinthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12406839170783074031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-81598335094150467242013-09-29T08:54:00.747-07:002013-09-29T08:54:00.747-07:00Greg,
As a fellow English major who often receive...Greg,<br /><br />As a fellow English major who often received top marks for my essays that I considered to be disconnected ruminations of little value compared to the work I was commenting on, this resonated with me on a very deep level. <br /><br />This bit was most interesting:<br /><br />"deep down at the heart of it that shit is made up. Fiction. Narrative. In the case of media, the meaning of a work may initially be created by the author, but in the end it is shaped by the audience."<br /><br />I was very fortunate in that my very first English prof at University was able to articulate something along the same lines, and it has been a most rewarding way to consider media ever since. When you progress onwards and try to grapple with more complicated lit theory, it's the notion that all media is a two-way conversation between author and audience that firmly grounds you, and enables you to view with some wariness any grand pronouncements of the author's death (Barthes), or worse, believing in the author's absolute sovereignty (I subsequently had English profs in both of those camps). <br /><br />I always appreciate your posts, and I'm really looking forward to playing Transistor to see how Supergiant's process translates to a second game. <br /><br />mehughes124https://www.blogger.com/profile/02908834689129737320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-31591374407647400592013-09-28T02:36:03.045-07:002013-09-28T02:36:03.045-07:00As always, I loved the post. You bring a few very ...As always, I loved the post. You bring a few very interesting points with which I have been struggling with since the recent start of my writing "career". I have always had a problem with creativity. Like you said, everything ever has been made. Even when we look at the conception of miraculous creatures or worlds, we see their roots deep into our culture. Nowadays it's a case of "how can I use the things that inspire me to my advantage?". <br /><br />I gotta admit I wasn't a big fan of Bastion initially. I didn't see the little things that made it so great, despite them being things I personally love. I just rushed through it the first time and I finished it with a very satisfied 6 hour experience, but that was all it was to me. I did see like most other people as just this tight hack and slasher with these amazing aesthetics, voice acting, writing and music. I never delved deep into the heart of it. <br /><br />A year past since Bastion came out on PC and I started reading more about it and started getting interested in more academic works altogether. I decided to play it again because it felt like I was doing it a disservice. I was blown away this time around. It was like an entirely different experience (which was funny since I was the minority in choosing Restoration the first time I played it). I started valuing the things you guys did a whole lot more and I noticed the brilliant design decisions you made on the project and finally for somebody to make a game that speaks directly to me. <br /><br />From all the interviews, and videos I've watched about you in particular talking about the game I could just see how you as a team approach these design challenges and to what extend you go to make it all so rich, deep and meaningful and inherently essential to the game's story. <br /><br />I too enjoy what you accomplished with the Shrine. Personally I have always felt like you do about difficulty systems and I was so glad to see that you guys cared enough to create this set of mechanic to give the player a challenge.<br /><br />Of course, this isn't the only part of Bastion that I personally love so much and is so important for the game and the story, but I would rather not start ranting on about everything because that would take me ages and make this reply a tad too uncomfortable on the eyes (it's already terrible enough as it is with my horrid writing). Lastly, I would like to add that I love to see you still writing here and giving your personal opinion on a lot of delicate matters I feel are not too explored withing gaming. Thank you!William Crosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01044903780431311364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-52712277365529565462013-04-16T18:14:51.783-07:002013-04-16T18:14:51.783-07:00I totally agree! Great article!
In this day and a...I totally agree! Great article!<br /><br />In this day and age it is so hard to find games that put that feeling of discovering as their top priority. But when you do find that game it creates that experience that will stick with you for years to come (I still get chills when I walk down the Great Hollow into Ash Lake).<br /><br />It’s great to see a developer talking about this key aspect of games from the standpoint of one who has achieved it many times. <br /><br />Thanks so much Greg! Keep up the good work!<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997026455447432058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-6721550026944256792013-03-01T21:13:52.227-08:002013-03-01T21:13:52.227-08:00Greg, love your work.
I've explored this spli...Greg, love your work.<br /><br />I've explored this split between discovery and mastery in some depth. There's something vital there, something fundamental. I've collected more thoughts you might be useful at https://dankline.wordpress.com/2012/04/15/the-rema-model-collected-links/, and I'd be interested in talking more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-21335836072241822052013-02-06T14:16:34.828-08:002013-02-06T14:16:34.828-08:00While I can't imagine a Metal Gear without lon...While I can't imagine a Metal Gear without long expositions and narrative building sequences, I think games that never take me out of the driver seat are by far the most memorable and impressive.<br /><br />I remember in Half Life: Episode 2, when Gordon and Alex are being hunted (and she gets taken away), the one part where the game took control away from me (Gordon), which made sense within the context and the lore... it blew my mind away. That's how I think games should teach and intervene, by making the player feel MORE involved and engaged, even if they have less control and a limited set of interactions. I don't mind when games direct my interactions, as long as they make sense within the context of what is happening to the character "I'm supposed to be".<br /><br />Oh yeah... <a href="http://www.sambatista.com/wp-content/gallery/personal/2009-03-25-16-31-37.jpg" rel="nofollow">we met at GDC in 09</a>, I was a big fan from your days at Gamespot. Glad to see you living the dream and helping to further the discussion and understanding of game design.Samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10071404307801635004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-9730555594452758762013-02-04T11:56:46.501-08:002013-02-04T11:56:46.501-08:00awesome write up gregawesome write up gregAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-84807368775048072832013-02-02T22:28:06.142-08:002013-02-02T22:28:06.142-08:00I really loved Splice as an example of pure discov...I really loved Splice as an example of pure discovery from a standpoint of pure gameplay. Not only does it not teach you how to play the game, it doesn't even teach you how the 100%-completion system works, or even that it exists. It's just up to the player to figure that out. It tickled me in a way I hadn't felt before.Clinthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12406839170783074031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-91805254034324413782012-07-18T10:31:56.985-07:002012-07-18T10:31:56.985-07:00I think its no coincidence that the list of games ...I think its no coincidence that the list of games I really like, for the most part, give you all the abilities you need (more or less) from the get-go: Portal, TF2 (though I've not kept up with the patches), Left For Dead, C & C: Generals (Tech tree notwithstanding; you can climb it in minutes.), Sim City, Myst, -- generic racing game ---, Super Mario Bros., etc. Half Life is the only standout, and the progressions in that game are not overwhelming.<br /><br />If you have your abilities instantly or soon, you focus on "How do I USE my abilities intelligently?"; if you constantly gift up a player, they are constantly resetting their progression as a SKILLED PLAYER to reconcile the new powers -- or worse yet not NEEDING to gain skill because they are mowing down enemies with their new abilities. <br /><br />As a designer you are given three options to respond to a continually amped up player:<br /><br />1) "More of the same" - more opponents - and that only works for a while and makes the player less emotionally involved or engaged with cannon fodder.<br /><br />2) "Amped up opponents" -- so the graphics get better, but the battles turn into longer grinds as everyone's health bars/armor gets longer. Or, everything balances out, so why bother?<br /><br />3) "Better is just better" -- the game stops being challenging and it becomes a race to see how FAST they can get through it, reducing experiential value of the game.<br /><br />If you want to make the game more interesting don't ladle on powers - make the OPPONENTS/GOALS more challenging and demanding of focus and talent. QUALITATIVELY -- not "Now you have to kill FIFTY tunnel rats" but "The tunnel rats now have sniper rifles and cruise missiles."200nWebmasterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12393601682945921473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-39689436416400025442012-06-30T03:45:29.926-07:002012-06-30T03:45:29.926-07:00Hey,
totally necromancing this thread. Sorry for ...Hey,<br /><br />totally necromancing this thread. Sorry for not replying initially I have no clue how this blog thing works and funny enough am a terribly slow adapter. Need to pay more attention to this now that I think I'm starting to somewhat 'get' Twitter.<br /><br />Anyway things I would disagree with for the point of playing Advocatus Diaboli more than anything else (as in: the blog post was great I just want to see what happens when throwing things at it):<br /><br />Problem 1 & 2: emotional disconnect & design limitations<br /><br />I think those are design problems that are solvable when abandoning conventions about difficulty and player progression. Who says that power fantasies would need to be hard to play at all? Prove in point: Playing Rez on lowest difficulty is still a blast and I would consider the constant feeling of forward momentum and dominance a power fantasy. But may be that's a question of what a 'power fantasy' is - not an English mayor at this end of the keyboard. ;)<br /><br />On the other hand like you say some games make an attempt at explaining. Assassins Creed and God of War series come to mind as they actually strip power from the player after initially having a go at it, providing an explanation to why things are hard going forward. May be not the most satisfying dramaturgy but hey who says games have to be a comfy either?<br /><br />Problem 3: Limited emotional range<br /><br />I don't know. I can see that the problem is there, it is pretty undeniable just going by how common it is.<br /><br />On the other hand like most problems I think it is solvable. Again provided that something as positive as Rez would qualify for a power fantasy then there are other things there for sure. Like Eddie Cameron wrote on Twitter (redirecting me to this here): '(...) I'd like to think a fantasy can be empowering too'<br />https://twitter.com/eddiecameron/status/218968063515688960<br /><br />Otherwise I would go as far that you can add regret and self-reflection to that list. <br />At least that's what I think we tried to do with Spec Ops: The Line<br /><br />Anyway great blog post, as you can see it stayed on my mind for quite a while.<br />I'm still interested in what the alternatives will be, although since I asked for them we got things like Journey so I'm sure more of them will show up more prominently and commonly at some point. At least lets hope so.<br /><br />Cheerio,<br />Jan David HasselJan David Hasselhttps://twitter.com/JanDavidHasselnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-51026446140534613812012-01-03T09:59:10.368-08:002012-01-03T09:59:10.368-08:00Fantastic article. Storytelling in games is one of...Fantastic article. Storytelling in games is one of my favourite subjects, and I've read a lot of articles that give similar advice about choosing a theme, but what I liked here is that you really solidify exactly how to use a theme and give some great examples.<br />I now need to go and read some more of your blog!<br />@edformAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-12048551935018495552012-01-01T19:46:41.848-08:002012-01-01T19:46:41.848-08:00Nope- this one went completely over my head! I can...Nope- this one went completely over my head! I can't find it in myself to make a game out of a theme informed by a tone. I hope the GDC talk you're doing gets filmed by Gamespot or something, cos I might understand it more from a talk.<br /><br />I think, playing Bastion, I did go through the thought-process you were going for; but mostly around the end, when the narrator character really starts to spell things out. And then that held up when I started again from the beginning.<br /><br />but y'know what-- thanks for not making the themes under the game super obvious. I probably didn't notice what anyone was talking about for the first couple hours just cos it was a fun game, and I appreciate you guys putting that first.Tomhttp://tinybuildgames.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-22267362934557769312012-01-01T16:32:54.600-08:002012-01-01T16:32:54.600-08:00great read, only wish I could be there for the GDC...great read, only wish I could be there for the GDC talk.<br /><br />Bastion wowed me in many ways and while I felt I was one of your players who "watches closely" I only felt the theme make the transition from my subconscious to the fore front of my mind as I read your description of it. Quite a strange experience to have a subconscious cocktail of emotions so accurately defined with words. Thanks for sharing it.<br /><br />OllyAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06667603718899422229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-1319952156950004612012-01-01T15:12:48.874-08:002012-01-01T15:12:48.874-08:00Thanks for the insight into the creative process. ...Thanks for the insight into the creative process. I don't think the thematic aspect could have been handled more skillfully; as I remarked to you previously, I think one of Bastion's strengths is in the way that it allows for so much interpretation on the part of the player, the way it might make me reflect on an aspect of my own life and find meaning there, while a friend might play it and find a very different kind of significance in its tale. There are few things I have more of a knee-jerk negative reaction to than a story that I think is trying to cram some moral down my throat. I would absolutely describe Bastion as a work with moral weight, in the best sense; it lets you discover its meanings for yourself.<br /><br />A Happy New Year to you and yours, Greg.Carohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13327065368858978514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-44793495827234895842012-01-01T10:05:39.224-08:002012-01-01T10:05:39.224-08:00I would bring home games for the boys and the ones...I would bring home games for the boys and the ones that got discussed over dinner were those with a hero on a quest; a journey with other characters we could care about. Skills, tricks and puzzle solving were always part of the fun, but the story was what made us want to play them again.Jazzzluverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09552007738367259859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-40557975983612398852012-01-01T02:37:25.071-08:002012-01-01T02:37:25.071-08:00Thanks for sharing your vision for the story craft...Thanks for sharing your vision for the story crafted in Bastion. I know I had to think about the choices, though the firs time through, I definitely made the choices I know I would make if the questions were really asked of me.<br /><br />Your acute sense of various outcome consideration made me think of The Shins' James Mercer, who titled his third album "Wincing the Night Away" about his obsession about little ways in which he thought he failed or came up short, keeping him awake throughout the wee hours. Hope yours isn't so complete<br /><br />Bastion was a very good game, fun to play but also to think about, and the visuals and audio were a real treat. I look forward to what Supergiant Games brings forth next. Happy new year!Jonathan Leardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00026935342110890118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-48997119802976428462011-12-20T05:13:36.744-08:002011-12-20T05:13:36.744-08:00I'm mostly a gamer outside of some hobbyist ga...I'm mostly a gamer outside of some hobbyist game designing, but I picked up Bastion a couple of weeks ago. I haven't played too far yet (Skyrim, Skyward Sword, plus a few others distracted me) so I skimmed your post here in the vaguest way I can without spoiling, but it looks promising. <br /><br />That it keeps opening up later slowly revealing more depth and features, knowing this in a vague way is actually good and encouraging for when I do play it, so I won't judge it too quickly.<br /><br />By the way, I was reading an Ultima related site, and they claim you are a fellow fan, eh? http://www.ultimaaiera.com/blog/rather-infrequent-open-thread-13/<br /><br />Anyway, from what I have played so far, your team seems very talented and perhaps just as importantly, very productive for it's size. Have you ever considered attempting a 2d Western RPG in the style of Ultima 7? It'd be a gamble, but your skills seem pretty suited towards that kind of thing. <br /><br />PS, it's strange for me, as I recall reading so many of your reviews, to see you transition into making games I'm buying and playing, it's interesting. Congratulations on this. As useful as your critical reviews were (you are probably the most sane reviewer I recall), being involved in game creation has got to feel pretty good. Ultimately creating something instead of criticizing something, in the grand scheme of things, there's kind of a duality there and I think we could all learn from this, how important it is to create. Especially looking around the internet in general, there's a hell of a lot of criticism, maybe a skewed ratio.<br /><br />When I play further into your game, perhaps I'll let you know how it goes. Thus far the art and controls are well done, but the meat of the game design is still further in. <br /><br />Take care, and good luck there, Greg, from a long time reader.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-89598730657495358142011-08-23T05:34:59.824-07:002011-08-23T05:34:59.824-07:00Bastion was one of the first games I've ever p...Bastion was one of the first games I've ever played where I felt the content was as tight, paced and well written as any other for of media out there at its best. If games want to stand up as a legitimate art form against film, etc, it needs to first prove that it can deliver just as engrossing an experience as any well written film or novel, and Bastion is a huge landmark in that direction. I'm constantly arguing with my dev team that its not enough for games to be good as games, they must be good as any media, and I'm glad to finally have some ammunition for that argument. Excellent job!Dylan Frieshttp://vagabondking.tumblr.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-90959292943431299322011-08-23T00:47:44.348-07:002011-08-23T00:47:44.348-07:00This pretty much describes exactly what I came to ...This pretty much describes exactly what I came to enjoy about the game so much towards the end. The constantly expanding scope made the world feel a lot larger and more organic than it was. For what was essentially a linear experience, the breadth of choice presented within worked to mask that in a very subtle way. And one that I didn't notice until I completed it. <br /><br />As for not showing your entire hand up front - I'd argue that the Power Shot and Counter mechanics, introduced at a very early stage, were more than enough to entice players with the promised complexity they so often crave but not in a way that overloaded them with information. <br /><br />I agree that too many games choose to start strong and neglect the ending and that is doing their audience a vast disservice. Frankly, if you're worried people won't make it to the end, then edit more content out. I'd rather play a well paced 8-10 hour experience(i.e. Uncharted 2) than a bloated 20 hour game (Alice: Madness Returns comes to mind as a recent example). Gamers still make the fallacy of equating value to time spent which, when applied to any other medium simply doesn't hold water. For instance, Transformers 3's 157 minute running time does not make it a vastly superior product to 2001: A Space Odyssey's 141. You can do more with less - the latter went from the dawn of mankind to the creation of an entirely new species within that time frame while the former merely moved from explosion to explosion. <br /><br />The fact that I found myself so deeply attached to even the ancillary characters despite a lack of any real interaction was what made me appreciate the emotional resonance the story built up to. *Spoiler* The loss of my squirt and pecker in the Bastion attack and it's effect on me came so out of left field as to catch me completely unawares. I rarely have that level of attachment to characters in games because they so often go out of their way to provide the players with what they want and not necessarily what the story requires.<br /><br />Loss and disappointment are so often seen as negatives within the industry and as something that would scare off players. But it's so often used to wonderful effect in movies and that level of emotional resonance is so seldom experienced in this medium. Players need to suffer and not have their way 100% of their time and they need to be OK with that. LA Noire did this badly by scoring each mission and, as such, rewarded cheating the system. Yet I kept playing Bastion despite the loss and never once thought to restart the game and try to circumvent the consequences. <br /><br />The choices at the end of Bastion carried real weight for me and I think that speaks volumes for the quality of the experience as a whole. The art, visuals and audio and the change in gameplay mechanics for the final act all conspired to create something that, despite being so abstract and so minimalist within it's approach in many ways, carried a lot more meaning than most games I've player this year.VitorSDMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07978227175118623823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-1057136643860517612011-08-23T00:43:27.929-07:002011-08-23T00:43:27.929-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.VitorSDMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-79573829132053623812011-08-23T00:36:45.750-07:002011-08-23T00:36:45.750-07:00Great post, really interesting. While playing Bast...Great post, really interesting. While playing Bastion, I actually didn't think much about the systems rolling out slowly. I felt like, every time something new got added, I was in a place of having learned what was already introduced and was glad that there was something new being added for me to explore.<br /><br />For instance, you mention dumping hugely complex ideas on the player from the get-go. That is what kept me away from the Civilization games until Civ V came out a year ago. There was just too much information being presented, and the game didn't do a great job of telling me what any of it meant or why I needed to keep track of it.<br /><br />Even going through New Game Plus, Bastion felt really interesting, as I started thinking less about "Oh, where is this story going next" and started looking into the things the narrator was saying, probably a little too much. Trying to find hints and deeper meanings behind what he was saying, after already knowing where the story was headed, felt exciting. Trying to learn more about Caelondia from the scraps of information is what kept me running through the second playthrough; in a word, Bastion is seductive.<br /><br />You guys did a fantastic job, and this post was really interesting insight into what informed some of the decisions that were made in making the game.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-11444872214920745122011-07-29T09:06:32.472-07:002011-07-29T09:06:32.472-07:00I'm also interested to see what Jan disagreed ...I'm also interested to see what Jan disagreed with. I thought everything was fine.<br /><br />One question though, you mentioned that in Call of Duty you don't really "grow" in the game. While it's obviously not realistic due to the regenerating health, but then how are you supposed to grow in games like those? It's a military shooter, so the game can't force you to have worse aiming or slower movement during the beginning. How would this concept of developing your skills work in a linear shooter?<br /><br />In a way, shooters already have some form of immersion. In Call of Duty, you're just another soldier in a sea of clones. You're not expected to be a great soldier, or the savior of the universe, or some top elite special forces guy. So wouldn't it make sense that it depends on how the player is able to aim and shoot?<br /><br />This is probably what you meant when you said it's better to start characters with a "clean slate". That way, there are no expectations of the player, in terms of choices and skill. However, how would this work in the more interactive sequences? Where you act angry when your friend is killed, or when you cry afterwards? Isn't that already molding the character for you?<br /><br />The only way I see this working is if the game is 100% sure that the player also feels the same way, at the same time, so that he can relate. And that would mean sequences like these could only work late game, correct?<br /><br />Thanks for reading.Johannnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6082533239875181337.post-40761488116694971082011-07-25T11:17:18.992-07:002011-07-25T11:17:18.992-07:00Hey this is GREAT! I downloaded Bastion today and ...Hey this is GREAT! I downloaded Bastion today and thought I'd look this up, now I'm totally stuck reading this blog.<br /><br />I can see how the narration idea is a really smart exposition tool now, and keeping a constant simple goal to tie a story up is somethin I need to work on.<br /><br />Good luck man, I hope SuperGiant really blows up!Tomhttp://tinybuildgames.comnoreply@blogger.com